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On Wednesday, August 15, 2012 6:35:55 AM UTC-5, Morten Leikvoll wrote: > Im looking for an equivalent word for "decimal" in a binary number. The "= deci" says it's all about base 10 numbers, but I miss an official term for = the 1/(2^n) digits. I'm using "binimals" in lack of a better word. Also, is= there a binary world equivalent for the "decimal" point? I don't believe "decimals" is correctly used to refer to decimal digits. Ma= ybe Decimal places... Binary digits (or binary bits or just bits) and binar= y point are the accepted terms you seek. Andy

>I don't believe "decimals" is correctly used to refer to decimal digits. >Maybe Decimal places... Binary digits (or binary bits or just bits) and >binary point are the accepted terms you seek. The examples shown in http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/decimals says "The number 67.398 is a decimal. It is equal to the whole number 67 plus the decimal.398. Seven-tenths written as a decimal is.7. Seven-tenths written as a fraction is {frac7. The decimal.2 is equal to the fraction {frac2." (never seen the {frac notation before though) There is the integer, or leading digits part. I guess the rest is called non-integer part, but it sounds a bit clumsy. Is there another word? In my native language the word most similar to decimal is used for the non integer part only. And if you look in the cell formatting of a spread sheet, the term "decimal places" refer to the # of digits to the right of the dot. I guess I could call those digits the modulo1 part of the value as well. Those terms works with any number base, but also clumsy. I would like an easy way to express a reference to the N'th digit of either the integer or the modulo1 part and I'm not really happy with my current options..

"Morten Leikvoll" <mleikvol@yahoo.nospam> wrote in message news:ssWdnbZrfZ4GFLbNnZ2dnUVZ8vKdnZ2d@lyse.net... > Im looking for an equivalent word for "decimal" in a binary number. The > "deci" says it's all about base 10 numbers, but I miss an official term > for the 1/(2^n) digits. I'm using "binimals" in lack of a better word. > Also, is there a binary world equivalent for the "decimal" point? > Do you mean hexadecimal where 4bit nibbles are used to describe each decade?

Morten Leikvoll <mleikvol@yahoo.nospam> wrote: > Im looking for an equivalent word for "decimal" in a binary number. > The "deci" says it's all about base 10 numbers, but I miss an > official term for the 1/(2^n) digits. I'm using "binimals" > in lack of a better word. It seems that decimal is used for both the base and for numbers, especially fractional numbers, written in it. Also for binary. Exactly why, I don't know. More specifically, it seems that people sometimes use the word "decimal" as short for "decimal fraction" or digits after the decimal point. > Also, is there a binary world equivalent for the "decimal" point? There is a binary point, also octal point and hexadecimal point if you happen to be in one of those radices, and generic radix point. Metric fractions are decimal for obvious reasons, but why are fractions of an inch usually binary? (Though written as fractions with powers of two in the denominator.) -- glen

Morten Leikvoll wrote: > Im looking for an equivalent word for "decimal" in a binary number. The > "deci" says it's all about base 10 numbers, but I miss an official term > for > the 1/(2^n) digits. I'm using "binimals" in lack of a better word. > Also, is there a binary world equivalent for the "decimal" point? The correct term, I think, is decimal fraction, so the equivalent would be binary fraction. Jon

Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> wrote: (snip) > The correct term, I think, is decimal fraction, so the equivalent > would be binary fraction. Yes, often shortened to decimal. Reminds me, that I never understood how "application program" got reduced to "application" and then "app." Doesn't sound right to me. -- glen

Morten Leikvoll wrote: > > There is the integer, or leading digits part. I guess the rest is called > non-integer part, but it sounds a bit clumsy. Is there another word? > <snip> > > I would like an easy way to express a reference to the N'th digit of eith= er > the integer or the modulo1 part and I'm not really happy with my current > options.. The notation I'm familiar with refers to the various portions of a two's complement signed fractional binary number as follows [Ref 1]: siii.ffff s : sign bit i : integer bit . : binary point f : fractional bit The individual bits are then referred to by their binary weighting, 2^N, where N can be negative for fractional formats. For the above fraction 2^2 =3D most significant integer bit 2^0 =3D least significant integer bit 2^-1 =3D most significant fractional bit The VHDL fixed point package [Ref 3] indexes fractional numbers by using N directly in index and range expressions. - Brian References: [Ref 1] "Fractional and Integer Arithmetic using the DSP56000 Family of General-Purpose Digital Signal Processors", APR3/D Rev. 1 http://cache.freescale.com/files/dsp/doc/app_note/APR3.pdf [Ref 2] "Fixed-Point Arithmetic: An Introduction", Randy Yates http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/y/a/yatesc/fp.pdf [Ref 3] "Fixed Point Package User=92s Guide", David Bishop http://www.vhdl.org/fphdl/Fixed_ug.pdf

>The notation I'm familiar with refers to the various portions of a >two's complement signed fractional binary number as follows [Ref 1]: >siii.ffff >s : sign bit >i : integer bit >. : binary point >f : fractional bit Fair enough, but initially why cant we just adopt the minus sign for negative numbers when writing. Ok, the machine implementation of it needs the sign bit, but brain-mapping arithmetics with base10 to base2 (or any base) becomes more complicated if you do it before implementation imho. >The individual bits are then referred to by their binary weighting, >2^N, where N can be negative for fractional formats. >For the above fraction >2^2 = most significant integer bit >2^0 = least significant integer bit >2^-1 = most significant fractional bit so to keep the base10 terms, the 2^0'th bit would be the first integer bit/digit, 2^1 would be the second and so on.. For the fraction, 2^(-1) would be the first fractional bit/digit, 2^(-2) the second and so on. Now, I do miss a compact word for "integer bit" and "fractional bit". >The VHDL fixed point package [Ref 3] indexes fractional numbers >by using N directly in index and range expressions. I had to give up using fractional types cause I was not satisfied with the packages. I ended up using logic vectors and keeping track on the fractional part myself. At least then I could blame myself if something went wrong..

This link also suggests that sometimes "decimals" are used for the fractional part only : http://www.thefreedictionary.com/decimal I would claim the word is a bit washed out if the definition is not clear.

"Thorsten Kiefer" <thorstenkiefer@gmx.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:5028fb5f$0$3601$6e1ede2f@read.cnntp.org... > Hi, > I'm not sure, if I posted it allready, but here is my video again : > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATiqjJi05IU > > - Thorsten Hi Thorsten, on April 6 2012 you posted some code on pastebin.com but it is not there any more. Would you please post it again ..bw

On Wed, 15 Aug 2012 13:35:55 +0200, Morten Leikvoll wrote: > Im looking for an equivalent word for "decimal" in a binary number. The > "deci" says it's all about base 10 numbers, but I miss an official term > for the 1/(2^n) digits. I'm using "binimals" in lack of a better word. > Also, is there a binary world equivalent for the "decimal" point? "Floating point" for the number, "radix" for the little dot. -- Tim Wescott Control system and signal processing consulting www.wescottdesign.com

Am 16.08.2012 12:19, schrieb bw: > "Thorsten Kiefer" <thorstenkiefer@gmx.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag > news:5028fb5f$0$3601$6e1ede2f@read.cnntp.org... >> Hi, >> I'm not sure, if I posted it allready, but here is my video again : >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATiqjJi05IU >> >> - Thorsten > > > Hi Thorsten, > > on April 6 2012 you posted some code on pastebin.com but it is not there any > more. > Would you please post it again > > ..bw > > > Hi bw, here it is again : http://pastebin.com/7yLDPUXz Is it useful for you ? Best Regards Thorsten

Am 15.08.2012 13:42, schrieb Morten Leikvoll: > Have you tried to see how many iterations you can fit in if you do this > in parallel realtime, and maybe add a fixed # of frames delay (using mem > for saving temporary result) to expand # of iterations? > The FPGA is 95% full with 18bit floating point. On this chip, parallelization is not possible.

>> Im looking for an equivalent word for "decimal" in a binary number. The >> "deci" says it's all about base 10 numbers, but I miss an official term >> for the 1/(2^n) digits. I'm using "binimals" in lack of a better word. >> Also, is there a binary world equivalent for the "decimal" point? >"Floating point" for the number, "radix" for the little dot. Floating point number is the term used for numbers with a movable point. In practice the numbers have a bitfield telling where the dot is in the cluster of bits. It only suggests that the dot is just a "point". Nothing about the numer base. But since the dot is base neutral, I guess its fine to use both "dot" and "point". According to mw.com, radix is Latin for "root". Meanings: 1: the base of a number system or of logarithms 2: the primary source Your suggestions doesnt make any sense to me.

>> Have you tried to see how many iterations you can fit in if you do this >> in parallel realtime, and maybe add a fixed # of frames delay (using mem >> for saving temporary result) to expand # of iterations? >The FPGA is 95% full with 18bit floating point. >On this chip, parallelization is not possible. I guess this is because you spent lots of logic on a microcontroller and code? What you need is the simplest form of communication to set the parameters, a fixed mode video generator and and an iteration deep pipelined approximator, and some maybe adaptive color LUT.. The communication could be as simple as a shift register to set coordinates. The videogenerator is easy. The approximator too is plain easy. The LUT I have to think over to get a good result, but a quick and dirty should be easy. Putting it together is just "smop" ;) Try searhing for "realtime fpga mandelbrot" on youtube and a few similar one pops up.

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 11:43:53 +0200, Morten Leikvoll wrote: >>> Im looking for an equivalent word for "decimal" in a binary number. >>> The "deci" says it's all about base 10 numbers, but I miss an official >>> term for the 1/(2^n) digits. I'm using "binimals" in lack of a better >>> word. Also, is there a binary world equivalent for the "decimal" >>> point? > >>"Floating point" for the number, "radix" for the little dot. > > Floating point number is the term used for numbers with a movable point. > In practice the numbers have a bitfield telling where the dot is in the > cluster of bits. It only suggests that the dot is just a "point". > Nothing about the numer base. But since the dot is base neutral, I > guess its fine to use both "dot" and "point". > > According to mw.com, radix is Latin for "root". Meanings: 1: the base of > a number system or of logarithms 2: the primary source > > Your suggestions doesn't make any sense to me. That's because I was talking about usage in the English language, which makes no sense. If you want to ask questions about a language and get answers that make sense when you chase the words down to their roots, may I suggest Esperanto, Klingon, or some other synthetic language? I was using "little dot" instead of "point" to avoid any Language Nazis who might feel inclined to try to drown me in erudition. Whatever it may be technically, visually it's a little dot (well, a comma in Europe). Re-reading your original post in light of what you're saying here, I think you're talking of the decimals to the right of the radix point (and yes, "radix point", or "radix" for short, is the term that's used, so by practical linguistics it does -- ipso facto -- make sense). If so, then I believe the usage among practitioners is "fractional part" (as opposed to the "integer part", which is to the left of the radix point). If you're interested in learning what practitioners use so that you can write documents or questions that make sense to the masses try asking on comp.dsp -- that's where I'd ask, and I'd be sure to get good answers. -- My liberal friends think I'm a conservative kook. My conservative friends think I'm a liberal kook. Why am I not happy that they have found common ground? Tim Wescott, Communications, Control, Circuits & Software http://www.wescottdesign.com

The candidate needs to familiar with development of Altera FPGA and Verilog HDL language, It is better if the candidate can familiar with wireless communication and VB.NET or C++. It is fix term project ,the duration of the job is 5 months, the venue of the job is : Glenrothes, Fife,Scotland ,UK, It is full time job. They company will offer great opportunity to graduates who wish to get work experience. Salary is about GBP 20,000 per annum. Please e-mail your CV to following address: clintonchn@yahoo.com

Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.com> wrote: (snip, someone wrote) >> Your suggestions doesn't make any sense to me. > That's because I was talking about usage in the English language, which > makes no sense. If you want to ask questions about a language and get > answers that make sense when you chase the words down to their roots, may > I suggest Esperanto, Klingon, or some other synthetic language? > I was using "little dot" instead of "point" to avoid any Language Nazis > who might feel inclined to try to drown me in erudition. Whatever it may > be technically, visually it's a little dot (well, a comma in Europe). OK, but it seems to me that the OPs question related to the difference between that ary suffix in binary, and the al suffix in decimal, octal, or hexadecimal. That, in addition to the confusing use of the word decimal to indicate a base 10 fraction. But all that is completely separate from fixed vs. floating point. You can do either in decimal, binary, or any other radix. The Fortran standard allows for any radix greater than one, for either fixed or floating point. > Re-reading your original post in light of what you're saying here, I > think you're talking of the decimals to the right of the radix point (and > yes, "radix point", or "radix" for short, is the term that's used, so by > practical linguistics it does -- ipso facto -- make sense). If so, then > I believe the usage among practitioners is "fractional part" (as opposed > to the "integer part", which is to the left of the radix point). I disagree with shortening "radix point" to "radix", but otherwise agree. > If you're interested in learning what practitioners use so that you can > write documents or questions that make sense to the masses try asking on > comp.dsp -- that's where I'd ask, and I'd be sure to get good answers. -- glen

Two's Complement format and signed integer format are two different formats= .=20 The MSB of two's complement format is NOT a "sign" bit. Sure, in two's comp= lement, the MSB can be used to tell if the quantity is negative, but the ot= her ("integer") bits are also interpretted differently based on the MSB. Th= ey do not represent the absolute value of the quantity.=20 Signed integer format uses a "sign bit" that ONLY indicates whether the qua= ntity is negative or positive. The "integer" part of signed integer is the = absolute value of the quantity.=20 Andy

On 8/20/2012 3:02 PM, Recruit FPGA engineer wrote: > The candidate needs to familiar with development of Altera FPGA and Verilog HDL language, It is better if the candidate can familiar with wireless communication and VB.NET or C++. > It is fix term project ,the duration of the job is 5 months, the venue of the job is : Glenrothes, Fife,Scotland ,UK, > It is full time job. > > They company will offer great opportunity to graduates who wish to get work experience. > > Salary is about GBP 20,000 per annum. > Please e-mail your CV to following address: clintonchn@yahoo.com Wow! I believe the pay is equivalent to less than USD 40,000 per year which is not even starting salary for an engineer in the US. I'm not surprised they are looking around the world. Rick

On 2012-08-21, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> posted: |----------------------------------------------------------------------| |"[. . .] | | | |[. . .] USD 40,000 per year | |which is not even starting salary for an engineer in the US. I'm not | |surprised they are looking around the world. | | | |Rick" | |----------------------------------------------------------------------| Ah, jobs are located away from the shores of the U.S.A. because people in the U.S.A. charge too much.

rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote: >On 8/20/2012 3:02 PM, Recruit FPGA engineer wrote: >> The candidate needs to familiar with development of Altera FPGA and Verilog HDL language, It is better if the candidate can familiar with wireless communication and VB.NET or C++. >> It is fix term project ,the duration of the job is 5 months, the venue of the job is : Glenrothes, Fife,Scotland ,UK, >> It is full time job. >> >> They company will offer great opportunity to graduates who wish to get work experience. >> >> Salary is about GBP 20,000 per annum. >> Please e-mail your CV to following address: clintonchn@yahoo.com > >Wow! I believe the pay is equivalent to less than USD 40,000 per year >which is not even starting salary for an engineer in the US. I'm not >surprised they are looking around the world. You can only compare salaries if you also account for cost of living. -- Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply indicates you are not using the right tools... nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.) --------------------------------------------------------------

On 8/21/2012 8:16 AM, Paul Colin Gloster wrote: > On 2012-08-21, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> posted: > |----------------------------------------------------------------------| > |"[. . .] | > | | > |[. . .] USD 40,000 per year | > |which is not even starting salary for an engineer in the US. I'm not | > |surprised they are looking around the world. | > | | > |Rick" | > |----------------------------------------------------------------------| > > Ah, jobs are located away from the shores of the U.S.A. because people in > the U.S.A. charge too much. That's only half of the picture. USA engineers charge exactly what USA employers are paying. Not all jobs can be offshored from the USA either. Narrow minded employers see cost savings as the only reason to offshore. It's a complex global situation. JJS

Paul Colin Gloster wrote: > On 2012-08-21, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> posted: > |----------------------------------------------------------------------| > |"[. . .] | > | | > |[. . .] USD 40,000 per year | > |which is not even starting salary for an engineer in the US. I'm not | > |surprised they are looking around the world. | > | | > |Rick" | > |----------------------------------------------------------------------| > > Ah, jobs are located away from the shores of the U.S.A. because people in > the U.S.A. charge too much. > If that were actually true, the US would have 100% unemployment. -- Les Cargill

On Tue, 21 Aug 2012 09:40:01 -0400, rickman wrote: > On 8/20/2012 3:02 PM, Recruit FPGA engineer wrote: >> The candidate needs to familiar with development of Altera FPGA and >> Verilog HDL language, It is better if the candidate can familiar with >> wireless communication and VB.NET or C++. >> It is fix term project ,the duration of the job is 5 months, the venue >> of the job is : Glenrothes, Fife,Scotland ,UK, >> It is full time job. >> >> They company will offer great opportunity to graduates who wish to get >> work experience. >> >> Salary is about GBP 20,000 per annum. >> Please e-mail your CV to following address: clintonchn@yahoo.com > > Wow! I believe the pay is equivalent to less than USD 40,000 per year > which is not even starting salary for an engineer in the US. I'm not > surprised they are looking around the world. About $32k last time I looked at the exchange rates. But even if they were offering a realistic salary, I would be more impressed if they translated the advert into English... So let's just say that despite the fact that I am actively looking for work at the moment, I haven't dropped my CV in their direction! :-) - Brian

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