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Messages from 23125

Article: 23125
Subject: Re: PAR Times for XILINX Foundation Express Student Edition 1.5
From: fliptron@netcom.com (Philip Freidin)
Date: 15 Jun 2000 02:08:17 GMT
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Lucky for you, I posted the following on Fri-June-11-1999,
and again on Sat-August-28-1999. 

This bug occurs during the very first exercise in the book, a 1 bit 
adder, which I assume is what you are doing.

I love it when I can help.

For your entertainment here it is, all fresh again.


============================== 6/11/1999
A friend and I have just been through exactly this problem: Student 
edition F1.5 hangs in the router. We also had crashes in the mapper.

The solution to both was to apply BOTH the F1.5 service pack, and the 
version 2 hot fix to that service pack. Do not apply F1.5i service packs 
to version F1.5, it wont work.

The main service pack is at
	ftp://ftp.xilinx.com/pub/swhelp/M1.5_updates/15_service_pack1_nt.zip

and the increment is at
	ftp://ftp.xilinx.com/pub/swhelp/M1.5_updates/15_sp1_ftp2_nt.zip

For ref, see this for warnings
	http://www.xilinx.com/techdocs/4897.htm


Some of the problems seem to be related to having visual C++ V 6.0 on
your system.

Philip Freidin



In article <nrqfkso00ap5oabn6qqh6rcf8be2lq5gg0@4ax.com>,
Abdar Kerpal  <me@somewhere.com> wrote:
>I am a new user to the XILINX F1.5, I am currently trying to run a
>simple project and I am in the implementation phase of the design,
>when I go to compile my schematic that is targeted for the XILINX
>4005XL technology, its gets to the Place and Route stage and just runs
>and runs, for laughs I let it run for over two hours and it was still
>running, I have tried everything to minimze PAR times, I am not using
>the heartbeat indicator either. The program is not hanging up, it is
>just running to no end. I also went ahead and used the system monitor
>to see how much CPU is being used, it is using 100% of my pIII733. Is
>this normal? or am I doing something wrong, or is there something in
>the configuration that I need to set or unset???????? Please help, I
>am totally perplexed!!!


Article: 23126
Subject: Error: Clock skew plus hold time of destination register exceeds register-to-register delay
From: "MK Yap" <mkyap@REMOVE.ieee.org>
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 10:35:00 +0800
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Hi!!

"  Error: Delay path from '|bsp_in:73|bytedata_2_.Q' to
'|bsp_in:73|intdata_2_.Q' is 4.2ns, but Clock skew is 2.9ns and hold time
required for '|bsp_in:73|intdata_2_.Q'  is 1.4ns - circuit cannot operate
because Clock skew plus hold time of destination register exceeds
register-to-register delay "

I encounter this problem when i've finished compiling the project & doing
the timing analysis. Most of the time, my design did not give me this error
mesg but it happened ocassionally. I changed other part of the circuit but
did not make any changes on the bsp_in portion. What can I do to ensure this
won't happen again? How can i put any constraint and where i should put it?
Thanks.

I'm using Maxplus2 9.3 & Synplify 5.3.1 for my VHDL codes, running on PC,
targetted at flex10k30e.
Pls advice


MK


Article: 23127
Subject: Re: FIFO design
From: Peter Alfke <palfke@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 03:22:23 GMT
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>

You need to specify more:
Depth ( 16, 256, multiple k ?)
Common clock or independent read/write clocks ( asynchronous FIFO)
Max desired frequency
Preferred FPGA family ( makes quite a difference: LUT-RAM, BlockRAM,
just registers)

If you don't specify, you end up with the lowest common denominator,
i.e. useless stuff.

Peter Alfke, Xilinx Applications
========================================
dave_admin@my-deja.com wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Can somebody give me an example of FIFO design with width >1 ?
> If it is parameterizable, even better.
> VHDL is preferable, but Verilog is fine too.
>
> regards,
> Dave.
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.

Article: 23128
Subject: Reed Solomon in Xilinx FPGA?
From: shahzad2512@my-deja.com
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 03:27:12 GMT
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Xilinx in one of their presentations about Reed Solomon(RS) decoders
claim that RS ASSP costs $20 and Xilinx RS
in an FPGA costs < $10. On the same web site, in an another
documentation about set top boxes they have shown
the architecture of set top box. The architecture shows the utilization
of RS from ASSP suppliers like Motorola.
Xilinx has shown in that architecture where their devices can fit-in in
a set-top box, the RS from xilinx is missing.
So the whole point is why would someone do RS in FPGA?
Why RS ASSP are expensive as compared to XIlinx FPGAs?
Why Xilinx RS is missing in the set top box architecture, if the price
difference is double?


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Article: 23129
Subject: Re: FIFO design
From: Jamil Khatib <jamilkhatib75@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 08:02:29 +0200
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Try to visit my memory cores page at
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Pines/6639/ip/memory_cores.html
You can also check http://www.opencores.org and http://www.free-ip.com
You can find Free Open design cores

Let me know if you are going to use my FIFO core

Regards
Jamil Khatib
OpenCores Organization

dave_admin@my-deja.com wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Can somebody give me an example of FIFO design with width >1 ?
> If it is parameterizable, even better.
> VHDL is preferable, but Verilog is fine too.
>
> regards,
> Dave.
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.

Article: 23130
Subject: FPGA board, PCI PLX bridge, DMA and Linux ..
From: Steven Derrien <sderrien@irisa.fr>
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 11:07:45 +0200
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Hello,

Has anyone heard of some open-source ro at least free device driver
source code for PLX PCI bridge under Linux ?

Thanks,

Steven


Article: 23131
Subject: Re: PCI for a fpga board
From: "Gary Watson" <gary@nexsan.sex>
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 10:42:22 +0100
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
I was at a seminar this week where they said this problem can be caused by
Intel's BX chip set.  Is this what you have?


--

Gary Watson
gary@nexsan.sex  (Change dot sex to dot com to reply!!!)
Nexsan Technologies Ltd.
Derby DE21 7BF  ENGLAND
http://www.nexsan.com



Steven Derrien <sderrien@irisa.fr> wrote in message
news:394795E3.51669350@irisa.fr...
> Hello,
>
> This post might be a little bit off-topic, but I know that many people i
> this group have been beating their head on PCI for a while, so I may get
> an answer to my question...
>
> I'm using Virtex fpga on a PLX9080 based PCI board. My driver uses the
> PLX SDK.
> I'm trying to perform Slave DMA transfer to get decent IO performance,
> however I can't get more than 30Mbytes/sec on my PIII 600 with DMA size
> of 40kb (PCI->Local Bus).
>
> I've been trying to play around with the various DMA configuration
> registers without success, besides i've implemented a simple spy
> (counting successive write operation) on my FPGA and it seems that
> almost no data burst occur during DMA transfer ...
>
> Any help or explanation would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks
>
> Steven
>


Article: 23132
Subject: Re: PCI for a fpga board
From: Steven Derrien <sderrien@irisa.fr>
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 11:52:07 +0200
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>


Gary Watson wrote:

> I was at a seminar this week where they said this problem can be caused by
> Intel's BX chip set.  Is this what you have?

Unfortunately yes I have a 440Bx chipset ...

Do you hav more information on this ?

Steven


Article: 23133
Subject: Re: Mutating Virtex FPGA
From: rickballantyne@home.com
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 12:10:34 GMT
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Hello,
I had a similar requirement for a project that I'm just
completing. The programmed Virtex FPGA could request
that a new configuration be loaded at any time. I placed
a CPLD (XC95OO family) between the configuration
sources, eight ISP PROMS, and the FPGA. The CPLD
controls the
configuration process, defaulting the first
configuration to a predetermined PROM, and then
under control of the FPGA switches the data path to the
specified PROM and re-loads the FPGA. The CPLD also had
a connection to a MultiLINX port which had priority over
the FPGA.
This allowed the user to override the configuration
loaded from the PROMs, which made debugging a whole lot
easier.

Alex Carreira wrote:

> Hello Everyone,
>
>     I am extremely interested in partial
> dynamic reconfiguration of FPGAs.  If anyone
> out there has knowledge of systems (particularly
> Virtex based) that reconfigure parts of the FPGA
> to accomplish different tasks at different points
> in system operation I would be glad to hear
> about it.  I have seen the XILINX ap notes on
> the subject and have read of the CAL and XC6
> series parts/projects, so we can skip info on these.
>
> Thank you.
>
>     Sincerely,
>
>     Alex :)

--

/ /\/  Rick Ballantyne           Senior Staff Engineer
\ \    Xilinx, Inc.
/ /    34 Hampel Cres.           Phone:(613) 836 5255
\_\/\  Stittsville, Ontario      Fax:  (613) 836 5393
       Canada K2S 1E4            E-Mail:rickb@xilinx.com

Xilinx's Web @ http://www.xilinx.com


Article: 23134
Subject: ANNOUNCE: Embedded Systems Glossary and Bibliography
From: Michael Barr <mbarr@netrino.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 09:26:06 -0400
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format.

--------------ms2FDCDAA09341DEB077E80853
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

This is a periodic posting to let readers of these newsgroups know
about several online resources that may be relevant:

[1]  Embedded Systems Glossary

        http://www.netrino.com/Publications/Glossary/

[2]  Embedded Systems Bibliography

        http://www.netrino.com/Publications/Bibliography/

These are online versions of the Glossary and Bibliography from my 
book, "Programming Embedded Systems in C and C++" (O'Reilly and
Associates, ISBN 1-56592-354-5).

It is my intention to make occasional changes and updates to these
online versions.  I would very much like to hear your constructive
feedback.  Please send your suggestions to <webmaster@netrino.com>.

I have put a lot of work into writing the book and creating and
maintaining these online resources.  I hope that they will be a
valuable contribution to the community of embedded systems hard-
ware and software designers.

Sincerely,
           Michael Barr
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--------------ms2FDCDAA09341DEB077E80853--

Article: 23135
Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: Embedded Systems Glossary and Bibliography
From: Michael Barr <mbarr@netrino.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 09:35:17 -0400
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format.

--------------ms9BDA23A63B55C22D0263ABAA
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David Brown wrote:
> 
> Prof. Andrew Tanenbaum refers to a binary semaphore named "mutex" in
> Operating Systems Design and Implementation (the book with the entire source
> code to Minix, precursor and insperation for Linux, as an Appendix) in 1987.
> The reference is to solve a buffer situation with three semaphores - "full"
> and "empty" initialised to 0, and a binary semaphore "mutex" initialised to
> 1 to ensure mutually exclusive access to the buffer.
> 
> So the term "mutex" has probably been generalised from particular uses such
> as this one.

Tanenbaum was indeed one of my influences for including this term in
the glossary (and using the term myself).  I'm enjoying this thread,
though.  One of the most interesting things about creating a glossary
and publishing it is the way it forces you to learn things you didn't
know about the perspectives of others.

Cheers,
	Michael
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--------------ms9BDA23A63B55C22D0263ABAA--

Article: 23136
Subject: CoreGenerator and VHDL
From: "Lars Lotzenburger" <Lotzen@Intersci.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 06:55:22 -0700
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Hi everybody.

I created a "Single Port Block Memory" with the F2.1 Core Generator.
-Design Entry: VHDL
-Vendor: Foundation
-Family: Virtex
-no behavioral simulation

Now I try to implement the created Object RAM0 in my VHDL Code.
But the Synthesis let appear this warning:

Cannot link cell 'MemProj/Mem' to its reference design 'RAM0'.

Ohh.. a little second question!
To simulate this RAM via behavioral simulation I must install ModelSim. Is this right?

I hope somebody can help me. Thanks in advance.

Lars
Article: 23137
Subject: Re: XILINX RAM Useless
From: "Andrew Ince" <andrew.ince@gecm.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 14:17:15 -0000
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
> bkk411@my-deja.com wrote: to Ray including the following
> > I think the problem I'm having did not quite come across:
> > The problem I'm having is that FPGA compilers, treat
> > RAMs and CoreGen block as black boxes, AND do NOT know
> > ANY timing constraints from those black boxes.
> > So it does NOT optimise the data path to and from the RAMs.
> > Synopsys does not show any path to/from the memory.
> > Even when I try to define a new timing constraint, the IOs of
> > the RAMs are not listed as a valid choice.

"Ray Andraka" <ray@andraka.com> wrote back
> You're right, I missed the point of your post.  So how wide are the
> combinatorial functions leading into your block RAM???  If it's less than
5
> bits then the path should optimise fine with the Xilinx mapper regardless
> of what synopsis is doing.

I have hit problems when Leonardo ModGen bugs failed to produce
deep RAM's correctly.
To work around the problem I instantiated 8 or more CoreGen RAM's.
The resulting design had hundreds of loads on some signals (address?)
and Xilinx was unable to route these without considerable delay.
If Leonardo Knew these signals were a problem it could have added
drivers in parallel etc.

To achieve this the preferred approach was said to be to pass the
EDIF for the CoreGen to Leonardo marked "Do NOT Touch".
This will allow it to determine the number of loads and parallel up
the drivers etc. to meet the timing.

bkk has suggested that The RAM4_XXXX would also need to be
passed to the Synthesis tool as it is instantiated in the CoreGen EDIF.
But I thought this was a basic element like Adders, and Muxes which
are not part of CoreGen and are understood by the Synthesis tools.

This whole problem is due to be addressed by the arriving closer
integration between Synthesis and PAR where black boxes are
PAR'ed and passed back to Synthesis to allow it to optimise
around them.

Andrew Ince


Article: 23138
Subject: Re: PAR Times for XILINX Foundation Express Student Edition 1.5
From: Abdar Kerpal <me@somewhere.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 08:20:39 -0600
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Dude, thanks alot, the service pack did the trick, I can now assign
pin constraints to any pin I want! I really want to thank everyone who
added their input to my dilema, all was very, very useful!! 


On 15 Jun 2000 02:08:17 GMT, fliptron@netcom.com (Philip Freidin)
wrote:

>Lucky for you, I posted the following on Fri-June-11-1999,
>and again on Sat-August-28-1999. 
>
>This bug occurs during the very first exercise in the book, a 1 bit 
>adder, which I assume is what you are doing.
>
>I love it when I can help.
>
>For your entertainment here it is, all fresh again.
>
>
>============================== 6/11/1999
>A friend and I have just been through exactly this problem: Student 
>edition F1.5 hangs in the router. We also had crashes in the mapper.
>
>The solution to both was to apply BOTH the F1.5 service pack, and the 
>version 2 hot fix to that service pack. Do not apply F1.5i service packs 
>to version F1.5, it wont work.
>
>The main service pack is at
>	ftp://ftp.xilinx.com/pub/swhelp/M1.5_updates/15_service_pack1_nt.zip
>
>and the increment is at
>	ftp://ftp.xilinx.com/pub/swhelp/M1.5_updates/15_sp1_ftp2_nt.zip
>
>For ref, see this for warnings
>	http://www.xilinx.com/techdocs/4897.htm
>
>
>Some of the problems seem to be related to having visual C++ V 6.0 on
>your system.
>
>Philip Freidin
>
>
>
>In article <nrqfkso00ap5oabn6qqh6rcf8be2lq5gg0@4ax.com>,
>Abdar Kerpal  <me@somewhere.com> wrote:
>>I am a new user to the XILINX F1.5, I am currently trying to run a
>>simple project and I am in the implementation phase of the design,
>>when I go to compile my schematic that is targeted for the XILINX
>>4005XL technology, its gets to the Place and Route stage and just runs
>>and runs, for laughs I let it run for over two hours and it was still
>>running, I have tried everything to minimze PAR times, I am not using
>>the heartbeat indicator either. The program is not hanging up, it is
>>just running to no end. I also went ahead and used the system monitor
>>to see how much CPU is being used, it is using 100% of my pIII733. Is
>>this normal? or am I doing something wrong, or is there something in
>>the configuration that I need to set or unset???????? Please help, I
>>am totally perplexed!!!
>

Article: 23139
Subject: Re: FIFO design
From: David Kessner <davidk@free-ip.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 08:23:46 -0600
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
dave_admin@my-deja.com wrote:
> Can somebody give me an example of FIFO design with width >1 ?
> If it is parameterizable, even better.
> VHDL is preferable, but Verilog is fine too.

Go to The Free-IP Project, http://www.free-ip.com, and follow
the links to the Free-RAM core.  That VHDL core includes many
FIFO's that are all parameterized and portable to several 
different FPGA's (Well, A to Z really). 

David Kessner
davidk@free-ip.com
Article: 23140
Subject: Re: CoreGenerator and VHDL
From: Nicolas Matringe <nicolas@dotcom.fr>
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 16:43:40 +0200
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Hi

Lars Lotzenburger a écrit :
> 
> Hi everybody.
> 
> I created a "Single Port Block Memory" with the F2.1 Core Generator.
> -Design Entry: VHDL
> -Vendor: Foundation
> -Family: Virtex
> -no behavioral simulation
> 
> Now I try to implement the created Object RAM0 in my VHDL Code.
> But the Synthesis let appear this warning:
> 
> Cannot link cell 'MemProj/Mem' to its reference design 'RAM0'.

I don't think this is a problem (this is only a warning, not an error
message). You need to have the memory .edn files (generated with
CoreGen) in the same directory as your other design files. After
synthesis, they will be incorporated in your design during
"implementation" (that's how Xilinx calls it I think)


> Ohh.. a little second question!
> To simulate this RAM via behavioral simulation I must install
> ModelSim. Is this right?

ModelSim or any other HDL simulator

-- 
Nicolas MATRINGE           DotCom S.A.
Conception electronique    16 rue du Moulin des Bruyeres
Tel +33 1 46 67 51 11      92400 COURBEVOIE
Fax +33 1 46 67 51 01      FRANCE
Article: 23141
Subject: PWM
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=C1ngel=20Guti=E9rrez?= <agutierrez@matrix.es>
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 16:43:42 +0200
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
I need the VHDL to make a PWN (12 bits)

Thanks in advanced

Article: 23142
Subject: Re: PCI for a fpga board
From: "Austin Franklin" <austin@dark77room.com>
Date: 15 Jun 2000 14:52:58 GMT
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
david garnett <dave.garnett@metapurple.co.uk> wrote in article
<8i9sjp$4hm$1@lure.pipex.net>...
> I've seen similar effects using the AMCC PCI chips. My best guess is that
it
> is something to do with the bridge controller between the PCI bus and
Local
> bus. I note that performance is much better running under DOS than NT, so
I
> guess that what may be happening is that the bus bridge is giving
priority
> to cache 'refills'. NT has a much bigger 'idle loop' than DOS, so
> consequently needs much more cache refill activity,

Why would an 'idle loop' not run entirely out of cache?

> which translates into
> less available bandwidth for everyone else ...
> 
> If you look at the PCI bus signals with a scope (digital) you will easily
> get a general picture of what is going on - you don't need a logic
analyser
> at this level.

Though I don't disagree you can get some indication as to what is going on
with a scope,
PCI development is much easier with a PCI extender card, and almost all (if
not all) of them have logic analyzer hookups.  They are hardly expensive
(like a few hundred dollars).  Decent logic analyzers are pretty cheap
these days too...

> regards
> Dave
> 
> Austin Franklin <austin@darkr88oom.com> wrote in message
> news:01bfd63f$9eb72670$250bf7a5@drt1...
> > > Austin Franklin wrote:
> > >
> > > > > I'm using Virtex fpga on a PLX9080 based PCI board. My driver
uses
> > the
> > > > > PLX SDK.
> > > >
> > > > If you did not re-write your driver, the PLX driver does double
> > buffering,
> > > > which is slow.  Are you using NT?
> > >
> > > I use NT, to perform the DMA, I use the physically contiguous
> > > memory buffer provided by  the function PlxPciCommonBufferGet
> > >
> > > Since the physical address for this buffer is given, this is the one
> > > I use for programming the plx DMA controler. The "double buffering"
> > > is hence handled in my program which copy the appropriate data into
this
> > > buffer.
> >
> > We found the PLX driver to not come close to providing the performance
we
> > needed, so we re-wrote it, to not double buffer (which was not an easy
> > task, BTW)...since we had to stream data, and the double buffering
really
> > slowed things down.
> >
> > > > > I'm trying to perform Slave DMA transfer to get decent IO
> > performance,
> > > >
> > > > What is slave DMA?  The PLX chip can become a PCI bus Master, which
is
> > what
> > > > you want, I would assume.
> > >
> > > Sorry, my explanation were not very clear.
> > > In my case, the plx chip is programmed form the PCI/host side (not
the
> > FPGA
> > > side) to
> > > start a DMA transfer as a busmaster to perform PCI to local bus DMA.
> > >
> > > Strangely, I have 30Mb when doing PCI to Local bus DMA, but I can
reach
> > 60Mb
> > > when doing Local to PCI (still with PLX as busmaster).
> >
> > That's not untypical, believe it or not.
> >
> > Sounds to me like you need to look at the PCI bus with a logic analyzer
to
> > see what is happening.  I wish I could give you a one line 'ta da'
fix...
> > Do you know that your back end can keep up with the PCI bus?
> >
> > I'll look over our NT driver and see if there is anything obvious that
I
> > can come up with that might cause the problem you are having...
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
Article: 23143
Subject: Work as a freelance FPGA engineer
From: abp_00@my-deja.com
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 15:28:15 GMT
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
I am about to finish my Master (thesis work in VHDL/FPGA related
matters) and I'm considering different options for my professional
career. I wonder if becoming an FPGA/VHDL freelance engineer would be a
good alternative to more classical jobs. I would appreciate any advice
you could give me.

Do you know if there is any web site where engineers can meet companies
looking for freelance designers?

Thanks for your time

AB


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Article: 23144
Subject: Re: CoreGenerator and VHDL
From: Scott <>
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 08:55:40 -0700
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Hi Lars, when you synthesize a COREGEN component, you are doing so as a "black box." This means that you have specified the component declaration, and instantiated that component in your architecture, but the synthesis tool does not have the VHDL code for the underlying netlist of that component. This warning is letting you know that. However, during implementation, the tools will look for the underlying netlist of that component, an EDIF file in this case, and link that to the design. This is why you must have the netlist file(s) from COREGEN in the same directory as your top-level netlist during implementation. Also, it would be true to say that the Xilinx tool set does not include a functional HDL simulator. However, MODELSIM is one of many third-party vendors who offer a tool that does do functional HDL simulation. I hope this information helps.

Regards,  

Scott - Xilinx Apps
Article: 23145
Subject: Re: Verilog Questions??
From: kayrock@geocities.com
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 16:51:46 GMT
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
In article <393588df@patience.ibsystems.com>,
  "Saqib." <saqib_khursheed@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>   Please answer me the following questions and obligue:
>
> 1.  I have to design a Isochronous Fifo, so will that be made exactly
the
> way as Asynchrous fifo (ie by using cs_B signal) or by using a clock
(ie
> clock will be necessary here or not)???

I think you mean asynchronous FIFO vs. synchronous FIFO, and yes you
will need a clock for the synchronous case.
>
> 2.  Is high impedence signal and dont care signal (ie 1'bz and 1'bx)
> are synthesizible or not??

They are: 1'bz is used to infer tristate drivers and 1'bx is used to
let the synthesizer know of a don't care condition so it can reduce
some logic possibly.
>
> Thanx,
> BYE.
>
Cheers!


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Article: 23146
Subject: Re: Altera Output Timing Question
From: Peter Alfke <peter@xilinx.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 10:06:26 -0700
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Gary,
"don't do that".
You are trying to shoe-horn an output delay between 7 and 16 ns.
That is not only dangerous, it is hopeless.
IC delays vary over the temperature range ( by >20%) over supply
voltage ( >10%) an due to processing variations ( another 30% or
even more ). The manufacturer guarantees the absolute max delay
under the worst combination ( high temp, low voltage, slow
processing) and you can trust that value. But there is no way to
control, and even less chance to guarantee, the shortest delay,
except for saying its no less than 25% of the guaranteed max delay (
That's what we here at Xilinx say, and Altera cannot be any
different. We all use the same silicon. Altera just cannot afford to
answer this newsgroup.  Poor devils...).
So, rethink your approach, maybe you need to specify a faster part,
be creative.
But don't expect IC delay parameters to have a small spread.

Peter Alfke, Xilinx Applications
==============================================
Gary Cook wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Using Maxplus-II to do output delay timing estimation for
> a given design gives a value of something like 16ns .... on the
> actual chip it's more like 7ns ... is the 16ns an absolute
> maximum and what I'm getting is a typical value?
>
> Unfortunately I need more that 7ns delay .. I could clock
> the outputs with negedge clock, and hope that I always get
> 7ns  ... but if I start getting 16ns then I'm back in trouble ...
> any ideas?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Gary Cook.

Article: 23147
Subject: Re: difference between fpga and epld
From: "Chris Foran" <chrisforan@REMOVE_MEhome.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 17:16:01 GMT
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Thanks.  That clears up a lot for me.



<kayrock@geocities.com> wrote in message news:8i8sit$h5e$1@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <XNG%4.6388$uj6.340332@news1.rdc1.on.wave.home.com>,
>   "John Smith" <jsmith@home.com> wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > What are the differences (if any) between an fpga and an epld?
> >
> Assuming this is a real question I'll go ahead and give a brief
> answer.  I'm sure this is in a FAQ somewhere.
>
> In general FPGA's have higher density than EPLD's.  ELPDs are good at
> high speed state machines while FPGA's are better at datapath
> operations.  EPLD's are commonly non-volitile, while FPGA's often are.
> EPLD's often have high current requirements even with no clock, while
> FPGA's often have only leakage currents (uA's) with no clock.
>
> Cheers!
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.


Article: 23148
Subject: Re: Altera Output Timing Question
From: bob elkind <eteam@aracnet.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 11:13:57 -0700
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Peter is 100% correct.  If anything, he understates the risk you're
contemplating.

The only parameter on which you can reasonably expect
tight tolerances is in the *matching* of similar delays on a single
piece of silicon.  Sometimes this can be used to your advantage.

If this problem arises in a device to be built in volume, you really
need to address the fundamental timing issue on the board.  In the
world of synchronous design, there is *usually* a very clean and
bulletproof solution that doesn't demand an exorbitant price.

It is well worth the effort to fix the problem at the fundamental
level, and then move on to the next design adventure.  Life is too
short (and too much fun) to be spent fretting and betting on the
chip-to-chip (and voltage and temp) differences in AC characteristics.

Post the missing details of the problem to this newsgroup.  This is
the sort of problem that serves as a good example to the readers,
illustrating design analysis and solution techniques.  This is
one of the primary needs addressed by these technical newsgroups.
You'll also see (usually) an incredible diversity of solutions and
analysis methods!

-- Bob Elkind

Peter Alfke wrote:
> 
> Gary,
> "don't do that".
> You are trying to shoe-horn an output delay between 7 and 16 ns.
> That is not only dangerous, it is hopeless.
> IC delays vary over the temperature range ( by >20%) over supply
> voltage ( >10%) an due to processing variations ( another 30% or
> even more ). The manufacturer guarantees the absolute max delay
> under the worst combination ( high temp, low voltage, slow
> processing) and you can trust that value. But there is no way to
> control, and even less chance to guarantee, the shortest delay,
> except for saying its no less than 25% of the guaranteed max delay (
> That's what we here at Xilinx say, and Altera cannot be any
> different. We all use the same silicon. Altera just cannot afford to
> answer this newsgroup.  Poor devils...).
> So, rethink your approach, maybe you need to specify a faster part,
> be creative.
> But don't expect IC delay parameters to have a small spread.
> 
> Peter Alfke, Xilinx Applications
> ==============================================
> Gary Cook wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> >
> > Using Maxplus-II to do output delay timing estimation for
> > a given design gives a value of something like 16ns .... on the
> > actual chip it's more like 7ns ... is the 16ns an absolute
> > maximum and what I'm getting is a typical value?
> >
> > Unfortunately I need more that 7ns delay .. I could clock
> > the outputs with negedge clock, and hope that I always get
> > 7ns  ... but if I start getting 16ns then I'm back in trouble ...
> > any ideas?
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Gary Cook.
Article: 23149
Subject: VHDL synthesis.
From: "Brent" <Fun@work.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 11:21:09 -0700
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Greetings everyone,

I'm looking into learning FPGA and VHDL.
I've recently been studying various HDL packages, such as Xilinx's
foundation base, and Synplicity's Synplify.

What I noticed is that they all mention they dont have Verilog and HDL
synthesis.

Does this mean that they dont actually have tools which enable me to
write out an HDL file and compile it into a bitstream?

Any response would be appreciated.






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