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Messages from 46425

Article: 46425
Subject: LabVIEW -> FPGA
From: christopher.saunter@durham.ac.uk (Christopher Saunter)
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 13:07:50 +0000 (UTC)
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Greetings All,

	I just saw the following post on comp.dsp:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=ni+niweek+labview+fpga&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=3D6D58E5.1BE95798%40NAESPAM.yahoo.com&rnum=2

It looks like National Instruments LabVIEW code being targeted to Xilinx
devices.  LabVIEW offers a high level graphical programming language, and
perhaps the way it is organised and used makes it more likely to benefit
from automated targeting to FPGAs than 'c' style languages? 

I doubt it'll change the way I use FPGAs (gimmie LUTs... ;-) but I can see
it going down well with many LabVIEW users who need to produce fast data
processing hardware etc.  

---

cds



Article: 46426
Subject: Is there any Development Board for developing a MIL-STD-1553B protocol chip?
From: lovexplorer@hotmail.com (Xiang Gu)
Date: 29 Aug 2002 06:12:47 -0700
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
HI,everyone
   we are now developing 1553 terminals(BC,RT,BM) on an ISA PC card.
Within the whole architecture of our design, there is a 1553 protocol
chip which is implemented by FPGA. We hasn't determined which
company's ASIC to use presently. My question may be a stupid one:
whether we can find a development board just like a DSP Emulator or a
MCU development board, or which company ever provide such kind of
board. I know some companys(such as DDC,Condor) do provide ISA/PCI/VXI
1553 simulators and they declare that their products can be used for
development, but I don't know which kind of development they mean. It
seems that their development means system design that process
Major/Minor Frame and network interconnecting, which is not what I
need. Now I'm hesitating if I should buy a card to assist my work.
Should I?
   Thank you for your helps!

Article: 46427
Subject: Re: My SpartanII thinks it's a Virtex??
From: Peter Alfke <palfke@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 15:23:36 GMT
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>


ds wrote:

> Does that mean that SpartanIII is a VirtexII?
> - ds

Do NOT bet on that!
Peter Alfke



Article: 46428
Subject: Handel-C data widths
From: govind.kharbanda@sli-institute.ac.uk (Govind Kharbanda)
Date: 29 Aug 2002 09:06:17 -0700
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Hi,

I'm writing with a query on use of the Handel-C language, please let
me know if there is a more appropriate forum in which to post.

If you write code such as:

  /*
   * lookup tables
   */

ram <signed int> trig_256[320]    with {block = 1};
ram <signed int> trig_2048[2560]  with {block = 1};

  /*
   *  read in trig array into block ram (block = 1)
   */

  chanin <signed int> input_trig_256 with { infile = "trig_256.dat" };
  chanin <signed int> input_trig_2048 with { infile = "trig_2048.dat"
};

  unsigned int 13 i;  // index for looping arrays

  i=0;
  do
  { 
    par
	{
	  i++;
      input_trig_256 ? trig_256[i];
	}
  } while (i!=320);


  i=0;  
  do
  { 
    par
	{
	  i++;
      input_trig_2048 ? trig_2048[i];
    }
  } while (i!=2560);

the compiler will complain that the index i does not agree with the
size of the first array, trig_256, which only needs an unsigned 9 to
access all its elements.  How do I get round this 'properly'? The
following two work arounds have been found to function but aren't
ideal

[1] declare a new index variable each time I need to loop an array of
a different size - but code gets messy
[2] do not declare size of RAM, but let Handel-C infer it i.e.
  
  ram <signed int> trig_256[]    with {block = 1};

  - doesn't work with more complex code

Gov

Article: 46429
(removed)


Article: 46430
Subject: Use SSTL2_I or SSTL2_II for bidir on VirtexII?
From: Hugo <hugo_ecot@mentor.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 09:21:26 -0700
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
I want to do a 100MHz bus with the SSTL2 standard. This bus will be between a VirtexII and an ASIC (with SSTL2 I/O). I want to know if I must use the class I or II.(i.e SSTL2_I or SSTL2_II). This bus is bidirectionnal and I saw in the datasheet ds031.pdf (figure 12, Page 18/301), for the DIC, the class I in not available for bidirectionnal line. Does it means the bidirectionnal bus requires the class II, and with the class I ,i can't realize a bidirectionnal bus. 

Thanks a lot for your opinion

Article: 46431
Subject: Re: Problem: Spartan 2 E CCLK
From: "Falk Brunner" <Falk.Brunner@gmx.de>
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 18:59:54 +0200
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
"Jim Raynor" <chris_cheung66@hotmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:8gdb9.18094$rn4.825937@news1.telusplanet.net...
> hi,
>
>     I am using Spartan 2E XC2S50E in my design.   Configuring the FPGA is
> done by using Serial Slave Mode.  However, for some reasons when I powered
> up the device, I saw a 3Mhz clk signal on the CCLK pin.  I don't have 3M
hz
> clk running on my board and I actually lifted up the CCLK pin so the 3Mhz
> clk signal is generated by the FPGA itself.
>     However, when I started loading the FPGA (Asserting Program Bar), the
3
> Mhz clk signal goes away and the FPGA is loaded successfully.
>     My concern is in the Spartan 2E datasheet, it specified that CCLK pin
is
> the input but it actually acts like an output when the FPGA is powered up.

Watch out for the mode pins (M2..M1). They select the configuration mode.
They have internal (weak) pull-ups, but if the are connected to a trace or
so, the might catch some noise (So the FPGA might think it should work in
master mode). Using external pull-ups (4k7 or less) may solve the problem.

--
MfG
Falk




Article: 46432
Subject: Re: Any FSM optimizer?
From: "Falk Brunner" <Falk.Brunner@gmx.de>
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 19:07:29 +0200
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
"nospam" <nospam@please.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:pn4omus6b8obef3dc1uaat50q4t772ial1@4ax.com...
> Peter Alfke <peter@xilinx.com> wrote:
>
> >If this interests you or anyone else, I can give you more details.
> >This is one of my pet subjects...
>
> Is there something novel about the design (state machines built from a
> clocked latch and PROM were used years ago) or is it just an efficient fit
> in Virtex/Spartan-II parts?

It is "just" a Virtex/Spartan-II fit.

> There was a software package called Log/IC (or maybe and add on for
Log/IC)
> by Isdata which would design FSMs with an option for implementation in a
> PROM.

Iam sure that every VHDL/Verilog Synthesizer has a FSM optimizer. The
documentation of XST says something about it, but not much. But XST produces
a analysis for each FSM it founds (number of states, transitions etc.) For
practical reason, you can select the desired encoding manually and compare
the results. I havent done a further investigation into this subject yet,
since one-hot or binary was always fast and compact to me.

--
MfG
Falk




Article: 46433
Subject: Re: Use SSTL2_I or SSTL2_II for bidir?
From: Austin Lesea <austin.lesea@xilinx.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 10:08:56 -0700
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Hugo,

Per the standard, class I is intended for unidirectional buses, and class II is intended for bidirectional buses.

This can be clearly seen by examining the mirror symmetry of class II terminations.

Some customers point out that class I can be used bidirectionally, but it neither meets the standard, nor performs as well as class II.....but if it works to your satisfaction, there are no "SSTL police" to prevent you from doing this.

Austin

Hugo wrote:

> I want to do a 100MHz bus with the SSTL2 standard. This bus will be between a VirtexII and an ASIC (with SSTL2 I/O).
> I want to know if I must use  the class I or II.(i.e SSTL2_I or SSTL2_II). This bus is bidirectionnal and I saw in the datasheet ds031.pdf (figure 12, Page 18/301), for the DIC, the class I in not available for bidirectionnal line. Does it means the bidirectionnal requires the class II and the class I can't realize a bidirectionnal bus.
>
> Thanks a lot for your opinion.


Article: 46434
(removed)


Article: 46435
Subject: Re: sensing an oscillator
From: "Marcel" <marcelgl@hatespam.xs4all.nl>
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 21:01:56 +0200
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Look into the texas instruments MSP430 users guide. This microcontroller
contains an oscillator fault detector from which the operation is reasonable
documented.


"cfk" <cfk_alter_ego@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:wS7a9.503$352.38590774@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
> I have a design where either an oscillator can be supplied externally on
an
> IOB input or I can generate it internally. Today I am struggling a bit
with
> the question of how to sense whether the external oscillator is connected
> and if it is not, then to run some logic circuitry off the internal
> oscillator.
>
> Currently, I am thinking that counting some number of oscillator cycles
from
> both inputs with an always statement (in Verilog) and setting a terminal
> count of say 10000 cycles for the external and 100,000 cycles for the
> internal. They are both the same frequency. If the external doesnt reach
> terminal count before the internal one does, then I would run the logic
> circuitry off the internal oscillator. The only reason the external one
> would not reach terminal count first would be if it is not active.
>
> So, the question for Sunday is, "Is this a reasonable way to sense an
> external/internal oscillator or is there a better way?"
>
> --
> Charles Krinke
> http://home.pacbell.net/cfk
> cfk@pacbell.net
>
>



Article: 46436
Subject: Re: Problem: Spartan 2 E CCLK
From: lng <>
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 12:51:11 -0700
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
First thing I would check the mode pins M0, M1, M2. What are their states at power-up?  Have you pull them up?  What option you select for these pin when you compile?

Article: 46437
Subject: gate the main FPGA clk
From: dgleeson@utvinternet.com (Denis Gleeson)
Date: 29 Aug 2002 14:43:59 -0700
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Hello all

Im new to this FPGA design stuff so any help or redirection
will be appreciated.

My problem is this. I am feeding an FPGA with a 100MHz clock.
Under certain conditions I want to feed this clock to a pin 
on my FPGA as an output.
To allow for the condition I need to gate the Main clock 
with what I have below. 

assign Acquisition_Clk = qbar ? Main_clk:1'b0;
//  Acquisition_Clk will be the output clk from the FPGA.
//  qbar is the negated q from a previous D-type FF.

What worries me is that I am feeding a CLK signal through
a non clk path. The translation report even warns me as below:

Checking expanded design ...
WARNING:NgdHelpers:357 - clock net "Main_clk_ACLKed" has non-clock
connections

So if what Im doing is not advisable, what should I be doing to gate
the main FPGA clk.

Many Thanks

Denis

PS. I am targeting a xilinx XC3020

Article: 46438
Subject: Re: gate the main FPGA clk
From: Peter Alfke <peter@xilinx.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 15:13:09 -0700
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Denis, why are you designing something with, for, or in a 15-year old
device?
100 MHz is easy today, but was not easy in 1987 when the XC3020 was
designed.
My suggestion is to use a much faster, bigger, and generally more
sophisticated device with better software support,  like Virtex,
Spartan-II, or Virtex-II devices. Much easier, cheaper, and more
rewarding.  :-)

Peter Alfke, Xilinx Applications

Denis Gleeson wrote:

> Hello all
>
> Im new to this FPGA design stuff so any help or redirection
> will be appreciated.
>
> My problem is this. I am feeding an FPGA with a 100MHz clock.
> Under certain conditions I want to feed this clock to a pin
> on my FPGA as an output.
> To allow for the condition I need to gate the Main clock
> with what I have below.
>
> assign Acquisition_Clk = qbar ? Main_clk:1'b0;
> //  Acquisition_Clk will be the output clk from the FPGA.
> //  qbar is the negated q from a previous D-type FF.
>
> What worries me is that I am feeding a CLK signal through
> a non clk path. The translation report even warns me as below:
>
> Checking expanded design ...
> WARNING:NgdHelpers:357 - clock net "Main_clk_ACLKed" has non-clock
> connections
>
> So if what Im doing is not advisable, what should I be doing to gate
> the main FPGA clk.
>
> Many Thanks
>
> Denis
>
> PS. I am targeting a xilinx XC3020


Article: 46439
Subject: Any FSM optimizer
From: htytus@shell1.iglou.com (Hul Tytus)
Date: 29 Aug 2002 18:53:44 -0400
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
comp.arch.fpga
Any FSM optimizer

The software distribution dept at the Berkley campus of the Univ. of 
Calif. has/had a minimizer available for roughly $100US. Intel included 
it in the software for their PLD's. I remember using it but not how 
effective it was.

Hul
		- for email, put the word  keep  in the subject heading
-- 
dogwo

Article: 46440
Subject: sustainable rate for Random Read of DDR SDRAM
From: ospyng@yahoo.com (spyng)
Date: 29 Aug 2002 16:26:46 -0700
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
hi all,
just a quick question, for a completely random read ( to different row
/bank /column ) to DDR SDRAM RAM the sustainable data rate is ~ 70 ns,
BL=4. ( base on Micron MT46V8M16-8, tRC = 70 ns, clk=100 mhz).

right ?

thanks
pyng

Article: 46441
Subject: Re: Anyone already on QUARTUS II V2.1 ?
From: "ds" <nospam@cwix.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 01:42:18 GMT
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
This patch is now on the Quartus II  Web Edition download page at
https://www.altera.com/support/software/download/altera_design/quartus_we/dn
l-quartus_we.jsp


"Kevin Brace" <kevinbraceusenet.killspam@killspam.hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:akf5g6$79h$1@newsreader.mailgate.org...
>
>
> ds wrote:
> >
> > A patch is available from Altera for QII 2.1 Web Edition.
> > - Subroto
> >
>
>
>         I checked Altera website, but all I found was the Service Pack
> for QII 1.1 and 2.0.
> The QII 2.1 Service Pack doesn't seem to be available yet.
>
>
>
> Kevin Brace (In general, don't respond to me directly, and respond
> within the newsgroup.)



Article: 46442
Subject: tristate bus
From: anjanr@yahoo.com (Anjan)
Date: 29 Aug 2002 21:39:00 -0700
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
I am implementing a tristate bus in virtex. Should the bus be pulled
up or can they be left as it is?

Article: 46443
Subject: Re: Use SSTL2_I or SSTL2_II for bidir?
From: hmurray@suespammers.org (Hal Murray)
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 06:41:18 -0000
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
> I want to know if I must use  the class I or II.(i.e SSTL2_I or
> SSTL2_II). This bus is bidirectionnal and I saw in the datasheet
> ds031.pdf (figure 12, Page 18/301), for the DIC, the class I in
> not available for bidirectionnal line. Does it means the bidirectionnal
> requires the class II and the class I can't realize a bidirectionnal bus.

SSTL2-II has twice the drive current of SSTL2-I.  That lets you put
terminating resistors at both ends of the bus which you want to do
if you are driving in both directions.

If your bus is short enough you can get away with only one terminator,
but you better know what you are doing.

-- 
The suespammers.org mail server is located in California.  So are all my
other mailboxes.  Please do not send unsolicited bulk e-mail or unsolicited
commercial e-mail to my suespammers.org address or any of my other addresses.
These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's.  I hate spam.


Article: 46444
Subject: Re: discrepancies in Xilinx xapp253, DDR SDRAM controller.
From: Parry <parry@dokin.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 23:47:17 -0700
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
I think Micron 4Mx32 is DDR SGRAM because the other x4,x8 or x16 DDR RAM is using A10 for precharge and more than 1 DQS...maybe you can get the Micron X16 simulation model for simulation...I didn't try their code but I refer to the code and modify for my use...I made the FSM and address,command generation and refer to their DCM and DDR I/O...I think you can run 100MHz using V2 easily...

Regards,

Parry

Article: 46445
Subject: Question on Fast CPLDs
From: Kenneth <kenneth.lee@terapower.com.hk>
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 15:02:55 +0800
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Dear All,

Currently I have a design which is quite simple and am planning to 
implement it in a CPLD.  However, the target operating speed is 
around 300MHz.

After searching, I found that some CPLDs from Xilinx and Lattice 
are claimed to be able to operate at more than 300MHz.  However, 
it seems that there is no PLL/DLL inside their CPLDs.  So how can
they operate at this high frequency?  Does it mean that I need to 
input a 300MHz clock signal into CPLD directly?  If so, i think it
may cuase some problems in the PCB design, and i will change the 
design avoiding this to be happened.

Please advise, thanks in advance.

Regards,
Kenneth

Article: 46446
Subject: Re: Any FSM optimizer?
From: hmurray@suespammers.org (Hal Murray)
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 07:03:29 -0000
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>

>One Virtex-II BlockRAM can implement:
>Any state machine with 256 states, each with a four-way branch controlled by two
>inputs, and with 37 outputs, arbitrarily defined for each state. No hidden
>constraints or problems.
>Or: 128 states, each with 8-way branch controlled by 3 inputs, same output
>flexibility.
>Or 64 states, each with 16-way branch, controlled by 4 inputs, same output
>flexibility.

There is another layer of hackery you can do for wider branching.

This works particularly well if you are thinking of the state
machine as microcode/software which is convenient for hundreds
of states.

Suppose you have many conditions that you might want to branch on,
but you only look at 1 or 2 in each state.  Use some output bits to
drive a mux and feed the output of the mux into the bottom bits of
the next state register (aka address input to ROM).

Suppose you have a 1K by N ROM.  You can think of that as
256 instructions/states with 4 way branching.  But that's
normally wasting a lot of your microcode slots - all the ones
where you don't want to branch.  So rather than replace the
bottom bit of the next-PC field, OR them in, and make one
of the inputs to the MUX be 0 (no branch).  Now all the
slots that you didn't want to branch to can be used for
normal instructions.

This makes the assembler slightly more complicated.  It has to
assign addresses for instructions so that the branches
work out right.  But again that's not a problem after you
have one to copy.

> The concept is archaic, but the practicality is new.
> "Old" does not necessarily mean bad, I hope.   :-)

It was practical ~20 years ago.  How about "again" rather than "new"?

-- 
The suespammers.org mail server is located in California.  So are all my
other mailboxes.  Please do not send unsolicited bulk e-mail or unsolicited
commercial e-mail to my suespammers.org address or any of my other addresses.
These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's.  I hate spam.


Article: 46447
Subject: tristate bus
From: "Chris Rutten" <crutten@impact.de.memec.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 08:43:10 +0000 (UTC)
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Hi,

The virtex bus is not *really* tristate, but allready pulled up. You
don't need to do it yourself.

grtx,

chris rutten


------

I am implementing a tristate bus in virtex. Should the bus be pulled
up or can they be left as it is?



-- 
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Article: 46448
Subject: Re: Handel-C data widths
From: "Neil Stainton" <neil.stainton@celoxica.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 10:13:46 +0100
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Hello Govind,

The correct way to make the width of the index match the width required by
the array is to explicitly extract the required bitfield from the variable
'i', thus:

   input_trig_256 ? trig_256[ i <- 9 ];

This will take the lower nine bits from the variable 'i' and use those for
the array index.

Best regards,

Neil Stainton
Applications Engineer
Celoxica Ltd.

http://www.celoxica.com



"Govind Kharbanda" <govind.kharbanda@sli-institute.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:2f5db38d.0208290806.4721d7c1@posting.google.com...
> Hi,
>
> I'm writing with a query on use of the Handel-C language, please let
> me know if there is a more appropriate forum in which to post.
>
> If you write code such as:
>
>   /*
>    * lookup tables
>    */
>
> ram <signed int> trig_256[320]    with {block = 1};
> ram <signed int> trig_2048[2560]  with {block = 1};
>
>   /*
>    *  read in trig array into block ram (block = 1)
>    */
>
>   chanin <signed int> input_trig_256 with { infile = "trig_256.dat" };
>   chanin <signed int> input_trig_2048 with { infile = "trig_2048.dat"
> };
>
>   unsigned int 13 i;  // index for looping arrays
>
>   i=0;
>   do
>   {
>     par
> {
>   i++;
>       input_trig_256 ? trig_256[i];
> }
>   } while (i!=320);
>
>
>   i=0;
>   do
>   {
>     par
> {
>   i++;
>       input_trig_2048 ? trig_2048[i];
>     }
>   } while (i!=2560);
>
> the compiler will complain that the index i does not agree with the
> size of the first array, trig_256, which only needs an unsigned 9 to
> access all its elements.  How do I get round this 'properly'? The
> following two work arounds have been found to function but aren't
> ideal
>
> [1] declare a new index variable each time I need to loop an array of
> a different size - but code gets messy
> [2] do not declare size of RAM, but let Handel-C infer it i.e.
>
>   ram <signed int> trig_256[]    with {block = 1};
>
>   - doesn't work with more complex code
>
> Gov



Article: 46449
Subject: Crashes while reading from memory with Nios
From: Christian Kramer <RemoveThis_christian.kramer@isw.uni-stuttgart.de>
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 11:18:08 +0200
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>

I have the following setup:

One Nios processor (16 bit) with to areas of (internal) RAM.
Both areas are about 2kbyte of size, one loacted at 0x0000 and one 
located at 0x1000.

I have an "operating system" placed in the first memory area. It 
receives over an UART software (C-Code, compiled with 'nb -b 0x1000 
mycode.c') and writes it in the memory locateted at 0x1000, which is 
working fine.
After receiving the program-data, the program gets executed with
asm(" PFX %hi(0x800)
                      MOVI %g0,%lo(0x800)
                      CALL %g0
                      NOP   
                ");   
This works fine, too.The software is running and I can accsess the 
7seg-Display on the Nios development board.
But when I try to have the program writing to memory with:

    unsigned int * memptr;
    memptr = (int *) 0x1200;

    *memptr= 0xabcd;      // if I remove this line, program works again

the processor crashes ( at least the program stops execution).

Has anyone an idea, what causes this crash?

I have the following ideas:
1.)  The program compiled with 'nb -b0x1000 mycode.c' is built to be the 
only executable on the nios. Maybe there are  mess-ups with some of the 
nios registers, caused by the operating system running before.
2.) I am using the wrong method to write to memory.
3.) It has something to do with the framepointer (I am not into 
assembly, but I found a lot of  "%fp" in the objdump of my code. I 
didn't find useful explainations on framepointer in the documentation.

Thanks for reading!
Christian



--
due to my bursting mailbox there is a no-spam  tag  in my e-mail adress ;-)




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